can the LCC be used to understand music that relies on quarter tones?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOSg56z1s2M
this is an honest question
quarter tones
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An open letter from Alice Russell. June 21, 2011, Brookline, Massachusetts. 1. DO NOT make insulting, mean spirited remarks about anyone or their work; there are a plethora of sites where you can rant unfettered. If you attack someone personally, your comments will be removed. You can post it, but I'm not paying for it. Go elsewhere, and let those artists who are actually interested in discussion and learning have the floor. 2. There will be NO posting of or links to copyrighted material without permission of the copyright owner. That's the law. And if you respect the work of people who make meaningful contributions, you should have no problem following this policy. 3. I appreciate many of the postings from so many of you. Please don't feel you have to spend your time "defending" the LCC to those who come here with the express purpose of disproving it. George worked for decades to disprove it himself; if you know his music, there's no question that it has gravity. And a final word: George was famous for his refusal to lower his standards in all areas of his life, no matter the cost. He twice refused concerts of his music at Lincoln Center Jazz because of their early position on what was authentically jazz. So save any speculation about the level of him as an artist and a man. The quotes on our websites were not written by George; they were written by critics/writers/scholars/fans over many years. Sincerely, Alice
An open letter from Alice Russell. June 21, 2011, Brookline, Massachusetts. 1. DO NOT make insulting, mean spirited remarks about anyone or their work; there are a plethora of sites where you can rant unfettered. If you attack someone personally, your comments will be removed. You can post it, but I'm not paying for it. Go elsewhere, and let those artists who are actually interested in discussion and learning have the floor. 2. There will be NO posting of or links to copyrighted material without permission of the copyright owner. That's the law. And if you respect the work of people who make meaningful contributions, you should have no problem following this policy. 3. I appreciate many of the postings from so many of you. Please don't feel you have to spend your time "defending" the LCC to those who come here with the express purpose of disproving it. George worked for decades to disprove it himself; if you know his music, there's no question that it has gravity. And a final word: George was famous for his refusal to lower his standards in all areas of his life, no matter the cost. He twice refused concerts of his music at Lincoln Center Jazz because of their early position on what was authentically jazz. So save any speculation about the level of him as an artist and a man. The quotes on our websites were not written by George; they were written by critics/writers/scholars/fans over many years. Sincerely, Alice
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guitarjazz
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I'm not an expert in quarter-tone music but I don't think it is ever mentioned in the LCC. Equal temperament is mentioned. I'm sure the principals of tonal gravity could be extrapolated to include aspects of quarter-tone music. The type of music in the video strikes me as being horizontal, melody based and not vertical, chord based.
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chespernevins
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guitarjazz
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"Q:Of course some music systems don't use equal temperament. Your concept doesn't relate to those systems, does it?
GR: It relates more to what happened before the introduction of equal temperament going back to the Pythagorean scale based on natural fifths. Even though they established equal temperament, they let the major scale represent the highest and most glorious fulfillment of musical tonality. They invested in it far more power that it should have had, for it doesn't actually contain within itself that much knowledge. If the theorists had kept the philosophical meaning of the Pythagorean tuning along with the invention of equal temperament, the resultant ideas would have been much closer to the truth. The Lydian scale would have emerged natually."
From The Black Perspective in Music, Vol. 2, No. 1(Spring, 1974), p.71.
GR: It relates more to what happened before the introduction of equal temperament going back to the Pythagorean scale based on natural fifths. Even though they established equal temperament, they let the major scale represent the highest and most glorious fulfillment of musical tonality. They invested in it far more power that it should have had, for it doesn't actually contain within itself that much knowledge. If the theorists had kept the philosophical meaning of the Pythagorean tuning along with the invention of equal temperament, the resultant ideas would have been much closer to the truth. The Lydian scale would have emerged natually."
From The Black Perspective in Music, Vol. 2, No. 1(Spring, 1974), p.71.
Your reference to "The Black Perspective In Music" led me to this:
http://www.criticalimprov.com/rt/printerFriendly/7/18
which I'm sure GR fans will appreciate.
http://www.criticalimprov.com/rt/printerFriendly/7/18
which I'm sure GR fans will appreciate.
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bobappleton
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in my interpretation of the lcc, this statement of chespers' is rather limiting.chespernevins wrote:The LCC is strictly based in equal temperament.
even in it's application to the past - and to the electronic music which is a significant part of gr's vocabulary - the idea that the lcc should be 'strictly based' in the physical limits of analog pianoforte construction of 17th century italy (which is equal temperament) seems out of tune.
imho, if you took the electronic, ambient and unequal temperament sounds out of the living time orchestra, it would just be another big band.
it's the inclusion of all sonic possibilities within the lcc that makes it great. excluding these now (like some kind of wynton marsalis-esque jazz police) is simply wrong to me. and i have to stand for the "freedom" with control that george spoke so eloquently about.
b
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chespernevins
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Perhaps my one liner response of "strictly based" was too snippy. My desire was not to limit discussion or imagination. I would offer this, though.bobappleton wrote:in my interpretation of the lcc, this statement of chespers' is rather limiting.chespernevins wrote:The LCC is strictly based in equal temperament.
even in it's application to the past - and to the electronic music which is a significant part of gr's vocabulary - the idea that the lcc should be 'strictly based' in the physical limits of analog pianoforte construction of 17th century italy (which is equal temperament) seems out of tune.
imho, if you took the electronic, ambient and unequal temperament sounds out of the living time orchestra, it would just be another big band.
it's the inclusion of all sonic possibilities within the lcc that makes it great. excluding these now (like some kind of wynton marsalis-esque jazz police) is simply wrong to me. and i have to stand for the "freedom" with control that george spoke so eloquently about.
b
George's classroom was down the hall from Joe Maneri's, where we studied the 72-note octave.
It was also down the hall from where Abby Rabinovitz taught Indian music.
I remember students asking George about the Concept and microtonality, and George responded that the LCC dealt with equal temperment.
With regards to the question posed by the OP, I don't see how the info in the LCC books could be directly used in understanding music that uses quarter tones.
I do agree with guitarjazz's statement that "the principals of tonal gravity could be extrapolated to include aspects of quarter-tone music".
I wouldn't, however, point someone to the LCC as a primary course of study for understanding microtonal music.
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bobappleton
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strachs: thanks for this very interesting article. critical improv is based near here at the university of guelph, and the writer of the piece in your link, alan stanbridge, teaches at the university of toronto (which is even closer).strachs wrote:Your reference to "The Black Perspective In Music" led me to this:
http://www.criticalimprov.com/rt/printerFriendly/7/18
which I'm sure GR fans will appreciate.
it's an objective review of one small aspect of george's work made with academic rigor. he brings up many interesting points including the idea that a cultural analyst "must forego the “veritiesâ€
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bobappleton
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